Hello everyone, and thanks for joining us for this edition of the CUSW Spotlight Podcast.

Typically, we interview our fellow CUSW members, but today we're very fortunate to be interviewing one of our extended family members of the CUSW, Nour Hachem.

 Nour is the president and the founder of Build A Dream.

Build A Dream is an organization focused on breaking barriers and building pathways for women and for the underrepresented groups of the workforce.

Nour is a powerhouse, and we're going to learn a lot from her today.

Hi Nour , how are you today?

I'm doing great, Dan. How are you?

I'm doing pretty good. I'm getting a little tongue tied for some reason today, 

I don't know why. Maybe you're making me nervous, but...

It's probably my last name. It tricks a little bit in terms of the pronunciation.

Yeah, you never know. I know you have your own podcast, so maybe I'm feeling I'm interviewing a podcast host and I got to be a little bit more on form, but you're making me feel good either way, so thanks again for being on the show.

It's such an honor to be here.

Awesome. I mentioned a little bit about who you are and what you do.  Can you fill us in a little bit more about who you are before you joined the CUSW integrated, extended family and  how you came here.

Yeah. So... Well first off, I just want to say I love that you call me an extended family member, 'cause that's how I see the CUSW family, as family as well. 

The work that we do is so important and valuable, it makes such an impact in a lot of people's lives, and you end up spending a lot of time together in trying to change the workforce for the better.

So, I really appreciated that. But who was I before Build A Dream or this movement. 

I often share the story of when I was in university and was essentially needing to find part-time employment, and I was looking for a summer job during my first year of university, and someone had said to me that there was an opportunity to work at a summer camp, and I would be working with newcomer youth and supporting them in getting integrated and assimilated into the region.

And I thought, okay, that's great. Like, I love kids, I'll do that. I never had worked in a not-for-profit before or worked with newcomers, but I knew that I had a love for children so that I thought it was a great fit. Long story short, I got the job, but I ended up not just being a camp counselor, I ended up leading a youth group that whole summer and fell in love with the work that I was doing. Fell in love with the idea that there was young people that had moved from across the world into this country for various reasons, with various barriers, and they were so eager and curious to learn about Canada, and I'm from Windsor, Ontario. And I saw the transition from when they first started in the youth camp that summer to the end of the summer, and how much their English had improved, how their confidence had increased, and I ended up staying with the organization for most of my university career. And when I originally thought going to university, I was going to become a lawyer, I ended up realizing I'm in love with the not-for-profit sector, I'm in love with working with equity deserving groups, or those that face the most barriers but have so much potential to thrive in our country. 

And that's kind of what planted my seed for the not-for-profit sector. 

But having been raised by my mom, we immigrated to Canada when I was one, I was born in Lebanon. And seeing my mom be a stay-at-home mom for most of my childhood, so she didn't enter into the workforce until I first entered university, which is why I had to get multiple part-time jobs while putting myself through school, 'cause we were the first generation to go to post-secondary, my siblings and I, both my parents had not finished grade school, so they escaped the Civil War in Lebanon and immigrated to Canada for a better life for us. And then my mom was not allowed to work when she was married to my dad. And so she was a stay-at-home and raised us on her own for most of my childhood, and when I was entering university, my mom made the most difficult decision and became a single mom of four kids, and English was a second language, not having any work experience, no education, she had two decisions to make. 

She would either get on social assistance, or find a job that would pay her enough to raise four kids on her own. And she ended up deciding to, after various trials and errors, starting her own company, selling motor oil and car parts, because my dad used to own mechanic shops and so she was familiar with the industry and someone had planted a seed for her and said, you should sell motor oil, there was a gap in the market in Windsor, Ontario, and she started selling from her van, and now runs a multimillion dollar company selling motor oil and car parts across Ontario.

But watching her resilience and watching her ability to make an empowered decision, even though all the barriers were stacked against her, really highlighted to me the impact that one can make if we begin breaking down those barriers much sooner. And it made me realize that people don't end up in their situation necessarily by choice, it's by circumstance. And some people don't have the privilege or the freedom that a lot of us take for granted. And I feel that, that really shaped who I became as an adult, and where my passion lies in the work that I do now at Build A Dream.

Wow. 

Listening to your story so far, I love it, how you've had such positive example from your mother, even under such diverse and extreme difficulties. And then at the same time you had this example of her just giving and giving, and here you are giving and giving.

I feel that, that is the epitome of my childhood. 

My mom really planted the seed of, if you have... she would always say to us, 'cause I remember we grew up in poverty. Like, we didn't have beds. Like at one point in my early childhood, like we were sleeping on mattresses, I didn't realize like the lunches that I had was because we just couldn't afford groceries.  

But my mom never made me feel that we didn't have a lot. So like, I'd watch her give of her time, give the little that we had, she'd always have a charity box next to her bed, and I'd say like, "How do you.. how can we afford to give?" And she said, as long as we have a roof over our head and food on the table, we always have enough to give.

And those values were instilled in me at such a young age, and I believe it in everything that I do, that we all have the capacity and ability to really make a difference, and I understand sometimes in this climate and in this economy, it gets hard, right? 

'Cause you're worried about, how do you keep yourself afloat? 

But I lean into the abundance mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset, because whenever you give, somehow it comes back to you tenfold. And so, I'm really grateful for the way my mom raised me and the values she instilled, 'cause those are values that now I carry forward with my own kids and into my mission and into our organization.

I can attest to that, about the statement you said, about the more you give, the more you get kind of thing. Before I was injured, I never really understood the value of volunteering and putting yourself out there for just the good of the people, and I did it and it was like, I should have did this years ago. So I truly appreciate that.

That's amazing, Dan. Yeah, like once you do it and you realize the impact you're having and just the intrinsic feelings you get, you're like, this is amazing! Like this kind of fulfills a purpose that you never even knew you had, or was in you.

No, it's true. 

And earlier you mentioned the value that this has on children, and giving back in any capacity to children, always, always, it increases tenfold later on. 'Cause you're planting these seeds. Like Nasia, my wife and I, we've had the fantastic experience of volunteering at a Burn Survivor Camp for children at the last two summers, and we spend one full week there. We live with the kids 24/7,  camping situation, and it is like the best. 

Like when we're done after the week, we need two weeks of sleep, but..

I'm sure.

It is so worth it, so thank you so much for just putting it out there.

Yeah. Thanks Dan. And kudos to you. I say we have a lot to learn from our youth and our children. 

 Exactly, and this is a part of the reason why we've developed this Spotlight Podcast show. We're highlighting what we do as members and as a group, and the CUSW actually supports myself to go to this burn survivor camp.

 So for us to be all part of the same group, I love it.

Yeah. 

It goes back to your earlier comment about family, one of the values that I've really appreciated is CUSW's commitment to building community. And beyond your members,

 how do you influence the regions that you're in, and then just hearing you say that they support you in going to those youth camps, speaks volumes to what I've witnessed in the work that we've done together at Build A Dream and trying to get more women to become members of CUSW and into the workforce. And we've changed together, we've changed a trajectory of the lives of so many women who prior to some of these experiences, did not have a sense of a place or a career that paid well enough as these jobs do, along with a positive outlook into the future. And so, I've been very fortunate to be a partner with CUSW.

Fantastic. I'm just curious, I'm piecing this all together and I don't typically see you working with work boots on, but you are a.. but you're a huge advocate and you're a major influence on people wearing work boots.

Yeah. 

I mean, I'll tell you, I wish I was out there working in the field, like if I could go back, I would've selected a skilled trade. And people say, there's still time, and I don't disagree. 

There is still a lot of time and it's something that I would love to even just explore as a hobby, but as you know, in the advocacy world and in the world that we're in and building a talent pipeline, there isn't much time to own a or have a hobby.  

I mentioned, you know, my childhood and I mentioned a little bit about my mom's resilience and in my experience in working with youth, after I graduated from university, I ended up working at organizations that went beyond just helping youth assimilate into the region, but it started exploring and supporting newcomers, those living on social assistance, people with significant barriers, multiple barriers, didn't complete high school, in helping them not only build the skills they need to get into the workforce, but then helping them find employment in the workforce. 

So I started really early on, like over 20 years, understanding the labour market and understanding the skills and experiences people needed to get into the sectors. And when I was working at an organization that predominantly supported women, I did an analysis of where my clients were finding employment, and a lot of my clients would remind me of my mom. They were single mothers, they were on social assistance, and we would literally sit in my office and do the math on how much they would need to be paid at a full-time position, in order to afford getting off the system. And I think that, that's an important point to make, because we're all battling these stereotypes and these myths about, you know, people, they like to be on social assistance and they get this income that happens every month, and people don't realize how difficult it is to even live on social assistance and how you don't really have that much freedom, and people don't want to just sit there and not be able to contribute to society or have a sense of purpose. 

And so, I saw the ins and outs of those living on social assistance, and their desire, and their commitment to want better. And in many cases, the jobs that we were finding them or that they were seeking did not pay enough. They simply did not pay enough to afford them to get off the system and off all the wraparound services that they get,  access to subsidized housing, access to subsidized transportation, childcare. 

All items that everyone needs but predominantly are required for single mothers, especially access to childcare being a big barrier. And so, at the time I was out there networking with industry, with unions and I kept hearing what the manufacturing sector, and naively at the time, I put together this workshop and I sent it to my clients and I said, come learn about careers in manufacturing, you can earn while you learn because the apprenticeship pathway pays you while you learn 90% on the job, 10% in school. And only one of my clients showed up and I was very curious about, why that was. 

You know, I saw them actively searching for work, I saw their desire and their commitment to want to do better, in many cases it was generational poverty, their commitment to want to do better for their kids, for themselves, and I started learning about the barriers and the representation of women in the skill trades, this is now going back to 2012. And I realized that women at the time were significantly underrepresented, and it wasn't as simple as putting together a workshop to say, come learn about these pathways. 

That for so long, women were excluded, were encouraged not to, and actually even back then, there was still, and even now, conversations around "Really, you're going to become an electrician, really? You're going to go into power line? I've never seen a woman do that!" and just society, I mean, we've made progress, but still contributes to this sense of, do women truly belong? That question mark in the spaces.  

What you just said there, it kind of makes my mind go a little bit weird because I know so many male nurses, and that barrier has been totally broken, where the men can jump into the normal women predominated numbers, you know what I mean? 

Like, why can't it just switch the other way easily for the trades, it just doesn't make sense to me.

There is still a lot of... and mind you, I don't want to say that men don't face barriers. There's other barriers that I've started speaking about that men face, that are really impacting the lives of men. But going back to that, the one thing that I say is systems were designed for men by men. And that's a fact, and for so long, and historically, if you just looked at it from a numbers perspective,  families could afford to be on a one income household, for the most part. Now there's no such thing. It's very difficult to be in a single income household. So not only is the labour market and the economy has changed, there is a need, there's an economic demand here for these positions, and not tapping into the other 50% of the talent pool is a huge miss for everybody. But beyond that, when you say, you know, men go in and there's no issues, it's how we define women in society and for so long and continuously, women are told who they should and shouldn't be, how they should and shouldn't act, what is acceptable not acceptable, and that is something that Build A Dream, outside of what we're trying to achieve in diversifying the workforce and ensuring that there's equitable opportunities for everyone to succeed within any sector, we're trying to shift mindsets. We're trying to have very important conversations like this around, we need to pause for a minute and ask ourselves, how are we contributing to this overall issue that has impacted women in many ways. 

You know, when we look at childcare barriers, we know that most single family households, the burden and the responsibility falls on women. That's a fact, that's the research, we know this. We know that domestic violence predominantly impacts women. 

We know that when we compare even female dominated jobs versus male dominated jobs, male dominated jobs pay more, and are significantly more financially secure.

 I got to make a comment. I was at a conference a little while ago and that fact is so true, but here's an alarming fact about that fact. It can be a male and a woman working side by side doing the same job, and the male still gets paid more. Same company, same everything. 

Yeah. 

That's crazy.

Dan, I know. I agree. 

And I used to work at an organization, I used to run a pre-apprenticeship training program at a college, and I remember placing my students, and I will tell you my female students would be offered less than my male students. And in some cases, they would be on the job for two years and they would be training a new apprentice and that apprentice would be paid more than them. And so this is why Build A Dream exists. This is why these conversations really matter and are important, and are valuable, because outside of us being able to make these incredible partnerships with CUSW, and with industry and government, we get to speak the truth of the lived experiences of women, because oftentimes women are reluctant to share their truth and to share their testimonials and experiences because they have a lot to lose. But when an organization like ours exist, with the goal of ensuring everyone wins. 

That we're here to not make industry's life more difficult or our clients' lives more difficult. e're here to really create dialogue and conversations that are healthy, that support the progress of society and the workforce. And so when you highlight these issues, you begin to ask, okay, well, if this is happening, what do we need to do to change it? Now with unions, the beauty of that is pay equity, right? Everyone gets paid the same. There is this scale that you're working towards as you move up in your levels.

Yeah. 

And it's a truly democratic process as well.

 And those are all important to reaching this gender parity that we're trying to reach as an organization and as a society. When people say, you know, why does Build A Dream exist and what work are you doing? Well, all these factors contribute to why we have an organization like ours that is not only building workforce ecosystems, so building these relationships and strategically aligning the needs of unions with the talent pipeline and supporting our clientele and getting the skills, experience and access to resources and tools that they need so that they could be successful once they get into the trades.

It's also all the work that we do with advocating for policy reform, or advocating to government where the budget's about to be launched, where money needs to stream in order for us to have the resources and tools to be able to equip the job seekers with what they need to be successful. It's the work that we do with media. 

In highlighting these stories and these issues so that it becomes mainstream, so that you're not surprised when you hear that two people working in the same field with the same experience, and just because you're a woman, you get paid less than your male counterparts.

We know that on average women earn, I believe just close to 77 cents on every dollar thattheir male counterparts earn. So we know all of that, and so then our organization is tasked with not only when we first started.. Like going back, 'cause I kind of pivoted, you're like, how did you get to running Build A Dream?

 Well, when I realized that there was so many barriers, one of the barriers I wanted to contribute to as a member of society is, I wanted every girl in grade school and high school to have the power of choice. And I felt that if we presented young women options to become an electrician, a power line technician, a welder, a police officer, a firefighter, to start her own company, whatever that is, she could then make the most informed decision for her future, that if we showed her the resources, the tools, the mentors, you can't be what you can't see. So highlighting more women's stories that have paved the way was critical. Showcasing companies that were willing to hire more women was important for families to feel comfortable in sending their daughters down that path.

So in 2014, Build A Dream was a one-off event that happened in Windsor, Ontario, to raise awareness, to showcase that if girls had the option to choose, some would choose these spaces. Some won't, but some would. And that's kind of the barrier that I was trying to break in 2014. 

Even if one picked it, it would be enough, wouldn't it?

It would be enough.

It would be a win.

'Cause then another one would join and then that's how you kind of start building the pipeline.

Yeah.

But then you fast forward and the one thing I often now say on stages with thousands of people, is the issue is not awareness. I can get women interested in these spaces. That's not our challenge. Our challenge is retention and advancement. It's creating environments that are conducive and create this sense of belonging that dismantle the barriers that have existed. Because again, I mentioned earlier, these systems were designed for men by men, and now the beauty of bringing diversity into the space is you get this thought leadership, and these lived experiences that you never had before at the table. And now you begin to see things differently, you can build things differently, and I think that at the end of it all, what we're trying to create is a space for everyone to thrive, not just one gender over the other, it's like, how do we build a community where together we can really build thriving societies.

Yeah. Like from my perspective, always coming from the health and safety end of things, I always think of, okay, we want to create safe and comfortable workspaces where everybody feels heard, everybody feels respected, and that's already out there. That's like general stuff, we all know that. But, how you're approaching this, it's more in line where, okay, that's all there, these doors are open, you're making ways to keep the doors open so these people can stay in the job site. You're adding all the other parts that just aren't there,and it's amazing.

Thanks, Dan. It's critical. 

Like we had a conference where we were talking about these issues, we launched our blueprint report, which was accumulation of all the research we've done in the last two years. We've talked to women across Canada about their experiences in these spaces across all the fields, like the sectors that I mentioned, skilled trades, STEM, emergency response, so we got all these different lived experiences, we talked to industry about their understanding and knowledge of diversity, equity and inclusion, and the representation of women, and then we also surveyed women about their experiences in the workplaces as well. 

And we put together the blueprints called the Blueprint Approach, and essentially it highlights the lived experiences and barriers that continue to exist and where we [00:24:00] feel we can continue to make an impact in the workforce to help retain and advance women. And when we look at some of the feedback there, a key component is showcasing to everybody that starts at a company, how they can move up into leadership or move forward in their career, and having clearly outline metrics and performance plans, so that everyone has access into it. Because what we heard from our national tour is the Old Boys Club is still, is still... well alive. 

It's the proximity of who you know, and in being in the rooms where these decisions are being made. And that is very critical when we look at the data and we see that just roughly 33% of women who enter into the trades are completing their Red Seal apprenticeship.

That is a very low number that should make us all worried because when we're looking at all the billions of dollars being invested into infrastructure, into energy, into manufacturing, into housing, who's going to do it? And if we don't get all apprentices to complete their journey ticket, we're not going to have enough journey people to train the next generation of apprentices. And and you look at the numbers and then you listen to the lived experiences, you start creating a story that helps shape how you will go about solving for those issues. And that is where, I believe Build A Dream's greatest strengths are, and where the pre-apprenticeship training program that we've been able to launch with CUSW, we did our second cohort, where we approached the leadership team there, Nathan and Cody, and we said, what happens to those that apply into your membership but may not have the skillset or experience just yet?

And similar to many industries, they just sit there and outside of you recruiting for what you need, you don't have the time and you're not in the business of giving that feedback or building up that pipeline, but we are. So we talked about, you know, well what could we do to build up the women, make sure that all the barriers, whether it's access to childcare, transportation, tools, safety gear that properly fit women, we know that there are still issues with PPE, that properly fits women.

You know, for so long, women have to wear men's sizing. If health and safety is at the core, that is a big health and safety issue. So, I just learned last week that even when it came to the Canadian Armed Forces, female recruits would get men's underwear as part of their uniform. And it sounds, it sounds.. really interesting to think that in 2026. But these are barriers. So imagine being the woman and going onto a field, you're the only one, you go to put on gear and it doesn't properly fit. You go on to put on a safety harness and it doesn't fit properly.

Yeah.

You start thinking to yourself, do I belong here? And after enough barriers, enough challenges, women then decide, this is not for me and they leave the industry.

And all that investment, all that commitment we've all made gets lost, and that's what we're trying to prevent in what we're trying to achieve collectively together.

Yeah. And it's so needed.

We can't be losing, we're in a position where trades across the country are looking for people and it's kind of like of competition right now to build your workforce. So..

Yeah, 

 I often say too, like you're looking at the younger demographic, the generations that are starting families, you're seeing more fathers wanting to be involved and wanting more time with their children, and you know, being more hands-on, I'm hearing more and more of these fathers taking some of the parental leave and so, companies are going to need to catch up with that, if they're really wanting to compete with other sectors that are looking for the same talent pool. And so those are all trends and data metrics that we share with our partners to say, not only should women have the right to make that choice and belong in any industry, so outside of that social argument, the economic argument on how are you going to build a workforce that's going to be resilient through all the various changes that are happening? 

Yeah, what you just said there, it brought me back memories of one of our previous guests. She had the opportunity through the trades to be the main breadwinner for her family and her husband is the stay at home mom.

And, this dynamic is going to be increasing more and more as this all happens because family dynamics are changing big time and, organizations like yourself and CUSW, we're making their employers and the industry realize things got to change here or else we're going to end up with nothing.

Well, yeah. And to challenge that, it's the stay-at-home dad, 'cause we're going to now start seeing more dads staying at home.

When I said stay-at-home mom, I meant dad 'cause he was the man. But yeah, you're right. 

Exactly. 

Yeah. 

But like for so long it's been the stay-at-home mom, but now we're going to begin to see a shift and that's okay. I guess what I argue and the message that I'm trying to send is, families are going to make the most financially important decision that they're in, especially when they're having children. 

You know, I didn't take my maternity leave with my daughter. My ex took the parental leave, and that was a decision made because his company had launched an initiative because it was a male dominated company, and they wanted to encourage more men to take parental leave. So what they did was, they launched a policy and an incentive where for the first six months to encourage more dads to take it, they topped up their pay to 100%. So for six months that you're on parental leave, you would get EI, in this company, you would get, like your company would top it off so that you didn't even feel that impact of being on EI. So obviously for us as a family, it made financial sense for him to stay home and for me to stay in the workforce. 

 And every family is just like any company, you got to crunch the numbers, you got to make things work.

Exactly.

Yeah.

But these are policies and initiatives that companies can do to change things. And one of the areas that we're looking at this year is the impact of women who do get pregnant and are going on maternity leave and the impact that that has, 'cause I do know that there are still significant bears from the clients that we serve and support, in those that do get pregnant when they're on the job sites. 

That kind of scares me in a way where I would never want to think that a woman's situation being financial would stop her from having a baby. And we have to make sure that never happens, that's for sure.

Yes, it's, again, it's partnerships. It's creating an ecosystem. 

One of the things that I often hear from the Tradeswoman that I value and support, is belonging to something and to an organization and to a community that shows them that they belong and that's so critical. And then being able to tap and lean into, we have incredible tradeswomen that work at our organization. 

So we have those that we're on the tools and did wear the work boots who are now on this side. 

There is something about a woman's touch, I got to say.

Well, they saw firsthand what they went through and their apprenticeship journey, and they're now on this end saying, I can guide you and pave the way for you. And that's really strengthened our ability to support and change the trajectory of a lot of the women's lives that we're trying to help. Because again, I argue that like we have hundreds of women right now that are eager to get into the trade. That's not the issue. 

We're looking now to dismantle some of the systems that will then meet the requirements of companies, but also allow more women to enter and then stay into the sector.

I'm going to, uh... I'm going to switch gears a little bit.

Okay.

Earlier you mentioned STEM. One of our past guests, Michelle Holmes, we were talking about STEM and that is Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics.Reading your bio, you've added an "A", can you explain the "A" ?

Yeah, so this was a conversation on almost a global level. So, Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. The A was added for the Art, the artistic piece.

So when you look at, even in engineering, you're an engineer working on the design of a bridge. There's an artistic component to that design. And so adding the A was a piece to highlighting the arts lens to science, to the technological jobs that were out there, to also entice those with an artistic, creative mindset to consider and to go into these spaces.

Like even if you look at building design and you look at the architect, that is an artistic eye that you would have or a touch that you would have to that. And so that's where it ended up being not STEM, STEAM, that was argued by the global community to say, art is such a significant component to these sectors and we should highlight them as part of raising awareness of all these pathways.

Well, that bodes well with my own experience working in the trades. Often you get plans and drawings from engineers and it's a really dry conversation. It's a very, very block thinking. So adding a little bit artistic piece to that, that makes sense.

 I've seen engineers go into the trades and I've seen trades people become engineers, and having both those skill sets, like seeing it from the design stage and into the practicality and the build of it, and vice versa, has really strengthened their ability to look at a project and appreciate it in a different way.

Oh yeah, putting a drawing together is much more different than putting the drawing together with actual pieces. 

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. I think we've been having a great conversation. Where do we go from here?

Well, I mean, what's next for Build A Dream is our continued efforts in trying to increase the number of women that enter into these spaces. 

We look forward to building more pre-apprenticeship training programs with CUSW, you know, being in attendance of the graduations and staying in touch, like, I got a email from one of the participants who said the seven weeks of her placement have been absolutely incredible. Like, her whole experience from the in-school portion at Hamburg college to being placed with industry has played such a critical role in how she sees herself contributing to the trades and the union.

So I look forward to building more of these employment programs, because I do feel that is going to be where we're going to make the biggest impact. We're continuing our efforts in raising awareness across Canada in running our career expos, and seeing the sisterhood at CUSW represented there. We have our professional development conference in Vancouver for Tradeswomen from across Canada happening in June of this year, and so we're encouraging unions and companies to send their apprentices and their journeywomen for a weekend to be enriched in a space where there's a sense of belonging and community, but also there's a conversation around how do we help them professionally develop and stay in the sector. 

And then we have our Signature Dreamer Day event that happens every fall in Toronto with 4,000 high school girls and grade school girls from across the province of Ontario, which is so incredible to witness. And then our advocacy work, we're going to continue on having these conversations, our blueprint report. I encourage everyone to pick it up and read it, because it provides solutions to some of these barriers that we talked about today. So there's a lot left, and I look forward to seeing how we can collectively keep building together.

Wow, that's a fantastic answer. 

And honestly, I think this has probably been one of the easiest interviews I've ever had to do. You've answered my questions before I've even had to ask  them. 

If I can go home with one thing from this conversation, it just seems like you're not only opening doors for people to enter the industry, enter the trades, you're actually keeping these doors open and you're allowing the doors to stay open so they stay in the industry. 

So it's.. the retention factor is awesome. The retention factor is the greatest tool we have right now. It's the most costly for sure, but if we do it right... 

I said this at our summit. There is an important historical moment in Canada and we could pave and lead the way. You know, when other countries are saying no to DI and dismantling their offices, we have a critical and pivotal opportunity here in Canada to say, double down on that, build a resilient, skilled, strong workforce, that is going to be the most competitive advantage. 

And I feel that this is a moment in history that we could really change the outlook of our workforce in such a positive way, and everyone wins.

Thank you so much for being such a strong advocate for CUSW and for women and underrepresented groups in the workforce, your contribution is immense, it really is. 

I also know you're a very busy woman and you've got another appointment or immediately.. 

Right after, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah, right now. 

So I'm going to dim the lights on the show very quickly. 

Thanks, Dan. 

Thanks again, so much. We really appreciate you being here. 

Thank you, Dan. This was such a pleasure. I really appreciate being here and I love these conversations that you're creating. 

Thank you. And we'll have more and I'm sure I'll see you again at the next conference or convention or a seminar we're going to be at, together. 

Looking forward to it.

Yep. 

Alright, everybody, we're going to dim the lights on the show. Everybody at home, if you want to get in touch with Nour, if you want to get in touch with myself, if you have any show suggestions, maybe you want to be a guest on the show, we want to hear from you. Please refer to the page at the end of the show, and you can find all our information there. And thanks again, appreciate all your time Nour.  

Thanks, Dan. 

Take care everybody, until we see you again. 

Bye everyone. 

Keep on shining, thank you.